☛ ... the most recent messages are on top !
'tapol_(Skynet)' tapol@skynet.be [weihsien_camp]
To:tabatha.soltay@gmail.com
Cc:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com,leonie.soltay@gmail.com,molinka@sympatico.ca
Sun, 18 Oct 2015 at 10:57
[weihsien_camp] Re: Weihsien camp
Dear Tabatha,
Thanks very much for the new pictures.
I added them to the “photo” chapter. Let me know if you read them well? .... if they are not too big for your computer screen ?
http://weihsien-paintings.org/70YearsAfter/Photos/TabathaSoltay/TabathaSoltay.pdf
... all the best,
Leopold
Mary Previte mtprevite@aol.com [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Sat, 17 Oct 2015 at 15:50
Re: [weihsien_camp] Re: Weihsien camp ** Thats a very good photo
Leopold,
You're a genius and a giver of great joy. Thank you.
Mary Taylor Previte
'tapol_(Skynet)' tapol@skynet.be [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Sat, 17 Oct 2015 at 09:34
Re: [weihsien_camp] Re: Weihsien camp ** Thats a very good photo
Dear Angela,
If you can transfer your SD-card to a DVD that is perfect for me.
Just send the DVD by ordinary snail-mail to:
Leopold Pander
Sentier du Berger, 15
B-1325 Corroy-le-Grand
Belgium
I shall then arrange all your pictures into a layout for the WeiHsien-paintings’ website just as I did for many others in the photo-chapter.
http://www.weihsien-paintings.org/70YearsAfter/Photos/p_photos.html
I’ll be watching my letter-box!
... all the best,
Leopold
'tapol_(Skynet)' tapol@skynet.be [weihsien_camp]
To:gyyan61@126.com,weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Cc:bobjoyce@tpg.com.au
Sat, 17 Oct 2015 at 09:23
[weihsien_camp] Re: email from China
Dear Gong Yingyan,
Thank you very much for your message ...
The best I can do is to forward your message to our “chat” list on Yahoo-Groups. One of our members could maybe send you more information about your quest.
However, ... you can read Joyce Bradbury née Cooke’s book entirely reproduced on the Weihsien-Paintings’ website with Joyce’s permission.
http://www.weihsien-paintings.org/books/ForgivenForgotten/p_FrontCover.htm
and then on the flipping book:
http://www.weihsien-paintings.org/books/ForgivenForgotten/Book/TableContents.htm
---
I hope that this short message answers your question
Best regards,
Leopold
☞
- http://www.weihsien-paintings.org is free access, non-profit and accessible in China.
From: 龚缨晏
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:13 PM
To: tapol@skynet.be
Dear friend,
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:13 PM
To: tapol@skynet.be
Subject: email from China
Dear friend,
I am a professor of history in Ningbo University, China. My research subject is the Europeans in Ningbo in 19th century, I am writing a paper about Colonel Cooke, the head of the Anglo-Chinese force in Ningbo (at that time it was spelled as Ningpo). I am so glad to read a book about Colonel Cooke, but I can not find the title and author of this book. I just want to know if it is possible for me to connect with the author, who is the great grandson of Colonel Cooke.
Thank you so much.
Best regards
Gong Yingyan, History Dept., Ningpo University, China
--
____________________
龚缨晏
Angela angelalousia@yahoo.ca [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Fri, 16 Oct 2015 at 18:33
Re: [weihsien_camp] Re: Weihsien camp ** Thats a very good photo
940 am Fri oct 16Hi Leopold
Hope you are doing well .. & have enjoyed all the photos....
the one Tabatha shows everyone off so well.
My son in law wasnt able to enter Sd card in my laptop so he
entered a few photos in his so I cud send by email
but many messages
returned Mail Damon... dont think you recd any. They are
similar to others but I printed a few photos ... ones for you
with your sister etc. I/d like to send them to you later with
Xmas mail ... please give me your address. Will have son in law
put my Sd card in a dvd ..
cheers angela
'tapol_(Skynet)' tapol@skynet.be [weihsien_camp]
To:tabatha.soltay@gmail.com,weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Fri, 16 Oct 2015 at 09:00
[weihsien_camp] Re: Weihsien camp
Dear Tabatha,
Thanks very much for your excellent photo. I added it to the Weihsien Paintings' website with this URL:
http://weihsien-paintings.org/70YearsAfter/Photos/TabathaSoltay/p_blanket.html
... for the captions, could you send me the “names” from left-to-right ...
More pictures welcome ... I could do the same layout as I did for the other photographers ☺
Best regards,
Leopold
-----Original Message-----
From: Tabatha Soltay
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 2:29 PM
To: tapol@skynet.be
Cc: Parents
Good morning Leopold,
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 2:29 PM
To: tapol@skynet.be
Cc: Parents
Subject: Weihsien camp
Good morning Leopold,
Please find attached a photo for your Weihsien reunion website. This is a picture of (Molly) Valentine A Soltay (nee Foyn) and family donating a blanket to the Museum. This blanket was air-dropped onto the camp during the liberation.
Thanks
Tabatha
Albert de Zutter alphadogal@yahoo.com [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Tue, 13 Oct 2015 at 18:32
Re: [weihsien_camp] RE book No Dogs & not Many Chinese *** thank you for corrections
Thank you for clarifying the source of the passages I commented on. I have not read either of the books -- i.e., "A Boy's War" or "No Dogs..." Yes, I believe you are correct about the gao liang fields outside the camp, and I have read about the liquor made from that grain.
Best wishes,
Albert de Zutter
Angela angelalousia@yahoo.ca [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Tue, 13 Oct 2015 at 18:08
Re: [weihsien_camp] RE book No Dogs & not Many Chinese *** thank you for corrections
910 am tues oct 13 ....Hello
The information was taken from David Mitchell/s book
A boys War 1988 by the author ...
Although I have not read the book thought the parts you
mentioned werent quite correct ... thank you for your comments.
Millet has become popular lately & I ate that for breakfast porridge
later in Tientsin - extremely healthy but didnt like it . Believe
the fiery Chinese liquor Bai Guer is made from Sorghum &
there were gao liang fields outside the camp.
angela
'Ted' sipabit@bell.net [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Tue, 13 Oct 2015 at 15:29
Re: [weihsien_camp] RE book No Dogs & not Many Chinese
I remember eating eggplant a lot. In fact it was years until I could bring myself to eat them.. in my thirties in fact. It was always a bit of a problem as I married a Canadian woman of Italian extraction who was crazy about eggplant.
Ted.
Albert de Zutter alphadogal@yahoo.com [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Tue, 13 Oct 2015 at 09:47
Re: [weihsien_camp] RE book No Dogs & not Many Chinese
I would like to add a word about "aubergine stew." I had to look up the meaning of "aubergine," and found that it referred to egg plant. I believe we did eat egg plant now and then, but I don't think it was in the form of stew. We regularly had what was laughingly called stew, with a few bits of meat in it as well as some vegetables. That was the "same old stew" that I remember. The "soup" could very well have been the same thing watered down, as described in "No Dogs."
Albert de Zutter alphadogal@yahoo.com [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Tue, 13 Oct 2015 at 09:42
Re: [weihsien_camp] RE book No Dogs & not Many Chinese
Our family of four were among the first group brought to the Weihsien camp in March 1943 when I was just short of 11 years old. We were all from Tsingtao, where we had been interned from the previous October. I read with interest the excerpts from the book "No Dogs," etc., and would like to offer a comments on a couple of statements made in the passages presented:
"Camp inmates ate unleavened bread baked by Catholic priests, with millet porridge for breakfast, aubergine stew for lunch..."
The camp had a couple of professional bakers from Tsingtao, including a Mr. Sanosian, who lived in our block, Block 2. The bakery produced bread (leavened) every day. My father would go to the bakery early in the morning to help knead the bread. The bread was one thing we camp inmates could count on most of the time. We never ate "unleavened bread made by Catholic priests." As a matter fact, the Swiss consul from Tsingtao would bring the unleavened bread (hosts) and sacramental wine for the Catholic Mass on his regular visits. There was no unleavened bread produced in the camp.
As for the "millet porridge," it was gao liang, which was "millet" only if "millet" is used as a generic for grain. Gao liang translates as "tall grain." It was sorghum. We would have been delighted to receive what we knew as millet, the small yellow grain that we sometimes had for breakfast in our life before our imprisonment. Another thing we never received in the camp was rice (no fish-heads either).
As I was not a part of the Chefoo school population -- which was pretty much segregated from the rest of us by their own choice -- I knew nothing of the death of the French teacher. My schooling was conducted by Mrs. Moore of the Pedking American School and several American nuns from Tsingtao. My French teacher was a Belgian priest, Father Emmanuel Hanquet, who lived to the age of 92 and died in Belgium a few years ago.
Sylvia Prince sylprin@gmail.com [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Mon, 12 Oct 2015 at 04:30
Re: [weihsien_camp] RE book No Dogs & not Many Chinese
Dear Angela,I read Mitchell's book on the Chefoo boys. It was very interesting however, being only in my preteens I'm afraid I don't remember any of them. I do recall a bunch of boys playing "capture the flag" with my brothers in front of the dormatory. If you would be interested in my book on Weihsien and a memoireof my life, it will be out shortly. It is called, "One Leaf In Time" but do not feel you have to pay for it. Mainly, I wanted to point out the negligence and destruction of War. Sorry, I guess I'm being pushy.
Take care and kep well.
Sylvia Churchill Prince
Angela angelalousia@yahoo.ca [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Mon, 12 Oct 2015 at 03:43
[weihsien_camp] RE book No Dogs & not Many Chinese
630 pm Sun oct 11 Vancouver BCHello everyone
REading the above book NO DOGS & Not many Chinese
Treaty port life in China 1843 - 1943 by Frances Wood
Page 287 ** In Chefoo School in Dec 1941. DAvid Mitchell/s
latin teacher, Gordon Martin, affectionately known as Goopy,
ha seen some figures in military uniform crossing the playing field as
he taught his class. Our new rulers have arrived, he announced
to the boys. By February 1942 many of the Chinese servants had
gone, so the boys & girls had to set the tables & clean the rooms.
Food now became scarce & the children subsisted largely on bean
curd, raw cabbage & slices of bread. In November the children
were transferred with their teachers to a transit camp at the Temple
hill Mission compound. DAvid/s only prized personal possession
from that moment was his set of dominoes which he carried in his
pocket. Several months later, they were moved once again, to Weihsien,
The sanitary arrangements at Temple Hill had been bad, the
outside latrines *a seething sea of maggots*. At Weihsien they were
equally primitive, the worst work detail was to clean out the frozen
latrines with pick axes. The dormitories were routinely infested
with bedbugs & occasionally visited by scorpions. Camp inmates
ate unleavened bread baked by CAtholic priests, with millet porridge
or breakfast, aubergine stew or lunch (known as SOS or *same old
stew*) and soup (watere down SOS) for supper washed down with
*tea-leaves* wrappe in muslin & brewed en masse in cauldrons of
boiling water.
School children were given lessons everyday although French had to
be abandone when the french teacher died of typhoid. DAvid
Mitchell recalled the stress laid on good behaviour but relations were
difficult in such cramped conditions.
Another Paragraph * The sad case of the retired British Consul
E.T.C. Werner. He had left the service in 1914 and after the death
of his wife had retired in Peking where he continued his researches
into Chinese history & culture and where his adopted daughter was
the victim of a horrible & unsolved sex murder. Interned in Weihsien,
*his doubtless quite unfounded belief that a fellow -internee was the
murderer added to the strains of internment camp life.
The book also mentions the White Elephant Bell... and Eric Liddell
his background etc & I was most fortunate to meet his two daughters
who came from Oakville Ontario to attend the 70th REunion.
There is a book written by Paul French Midnight in Peking
re the murder of Pamela Werner a student of Tientsin Gramma
school. ACtually quite interesting & worth a read.
Perhaps some of you fromm the Chefoo school recall the above
names .
cheers
Angela Elliott
'Ted' sipabit@bell.net [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Sun, 11 Oct 2015 at 18:23
Re: [weihsien_camp] A letter to Weihsien Internment Camp Witness *** cicnt realize it went to all
This had started while we were still around. That is what decided my Dad to leave.
I remember Tommy.
Never met his mother.
Was he legally adopted by Gramma? or did he just live with her?
Ted.
Angela angelalousia@yahoo.ca [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Sun, 11 Oct 2015 at 18:14
Re: [weihsien_camp] A letter to Weihsien Internment Camp Witness *** cicnt realize it went to all
900 am sun oct 11Hi Ted
See what you missed after leaving china? YOu can google ... its the
3 Anti 5 Anti campaign 1951 1952 ..massive campaign party sponsored
trails ...targets foreigners christian missionaries branded as US agents
mass trails anti capitalists .... voluntary confessions. Literally a witch hunt.
Father Molinari already left - Ken met him along his way to London with
Brother Kenny & Aloysius ... said he looked younger with a hair cut. I was
confirmed in the cathedral by Italian bishop & just later he was under house
arrest -deported. Priests at Hautes Etudies were accused of being spies...
we went to the exhibit there ...showing where they hid the short wave radio
under the stairs ... We were required to turn in all short wave radios ... to be
checked in case we cud send out messages... cameras ..Father Low or Lo or lau
english speaking shared the house with another older chinese priest at St Louie/s
Mum thought the older priest towed the Commie line moreso as in his sermons
Mum & Dad went outside to smoke till he finished .... Father Low became friendly
with Billy Pateman & I ... even went to a studio to have our photo taken.
Billy Pateman was a good friend of Ken/s ....they/re ride the bus line end to end
for something to do .
Brit Consulate finally sent Billy to England. Worse off was
Tommy - the Od/s adopted boy... Tommy/s mother was a deaf mute - no idea
how she knew of him but I do remember him well as he/d come for lunch with
her every Wed... she/d take a bath at our place. He went to Marist brothers
Fan Han school across from Cathedral & was very attentive to the OD . He
became a Catholic & joined Legion of Mary .... sent away but wrote asking
the OD for items toiletries etc she always sent but that ended when we
left & wonder what happened to him - must have been let out later. HE was
wonderful to her -with patience that none of our parents had with her.
I inherited his louzy bike .... you/d pedal & it wouldnt go anywhere at times
you/d think my parents wud have bot me a new bike... was fixed many times
but always the same problem.. Many committed suicide ...even Arno Shulte/s
dad... he jumped off the roof - they lived corner house practically across from
Hautes Etudies. The Korean war didnt help ... very anti American ... sirens
meant they were going to pick up someone ...children reported on their parents.
Very anti any foreigner ....everyone accused of being running dogs of the
capitalists. My friend Miriam/s Dad was taken away .... the gal we visited
in Japan 3 years ago . Then later the cultural revoluntion - even worse.
Do you recall ever meeting Tommy ?? Nice looking boy & ever so devoted
to the OD ..
cheers
Michael Rank rank@mailbox.co.uk [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Sun, 11 Oct 2015 at 17:56
[weihsien_camp] Eric Liddell article
You may be interested in this article about Eric Liddell in Weihsien which I have written for the Tianjin magazine Jin.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/283367528/Eric-Liddell-in-Weihsien-camp
It's probably easier to read if you download it and then magnify.
Best wishes,
Michael
'Ted' sipabit@bell.net [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Sun, 11 Oct 2015 at 14:32
Re: [weihsien_camp] A letter to Weihsien Internment Camp Witness *** a late reply
Hi, what was “San Fan Wu Fan”? IIRC the priest at St L, was Fr Molinari?
Angela angelalousia@yahoo.ca [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Sun, 11 Oct 2015 at 04:51
Re: [weihsien_camp] A letter to Weihsien Internment Camp Witness *** a late reply
740 pm Sat oct 10 .. Vancouver BCHello Yuelin,
You have written an excellent account of your family & their
sufferings. Alas I am unable to give you any information as I
was born in Weihsien & cannot recall anything. After camp
my family was flown by US military transport to Tientsin - Tianjin
we didnt leave for HKG & Canada till 1956.
I well understand what you/ve said ... as in tientsin we went
thru San Fan Wu Fan & many Catholic priests etc were sent to
re education camps . Father Lo did survive & I met him later
he succeeded the Italian priest from ST Louis church & knew him
well then. The government were very repressive with the Legion
of..Mary followers ...my grandmother/s adopted son was sent away
mainly due to his fervent faith... she would send items he requested
but only hope he was released after. So many people suffered and
committed suicide & later even worse during the cultural revolution.
Someone sent me photos of the struggle sessions in front of the
cathedral ...it was horrible to think it happened. I am of the Catholic
faith ... the nuns from the convent St Josephs were deported
& also the brothers who taught at St Louis college.
Now it appears the churches are allowed to function ... however
they are not supposed to be linked to Rome.
There is an underground
Catholic following ... well still Catholic whether Rome dictates or
not .
I hope you have received replies from others ... Mary Previte/s
family are missionary background &many others too. I welcome
any messages from. you. My grandmothers are Chinese so I am
a mixture . My Maternal grandmother is from Lanchow Kansu province
& my great grand father Paul Splingaerd had negotiations with
the Ching dynasty to build the first iron bridge across the yellow
river. Our family were invited to Lanchow for the 100 anniversary
of the Iron bridge in Lanchow. You can google Paul Splingaerd.
My cousin Anne Splingaerd Mcgowan wrote a book on him .
You must know that Mary Previte/s great grand father originated
the China Inland Mission so she has a history of religion in her
background .
I usually return to visit Tientsin each year ... however my friends
are elderly now & only 2 people left to visit.
cheers angela elliott
Vancouver B C
ps where do you reside in the US you/re lucky to be there
but China has changed so much lately
From: "Huang Yueyin huangyuelin5@gmail.com [weihsien_camp]"
To: "weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 5:08 PM
>>>
>>>Dear Weihsien Internment Camp Witness,
To: "weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 5:08 PM
Subject: [weihsien_camp] A letter to Weihsien Internment Camp Witness
发自我的 iPadTo: A letter to Weihsien Internment Camp Witness>>>
>>>
Dear Weihsien Internment Camp Witness,
>>>
>>> It is blessed that I can have this chance to share some common memory between you and my life.
>>>
>>> In March, 1942, the Japanese invader made one of the American Presbyterian mission compound at Shandong, China, named “Weihsien Courtyard of the Happy Way”, to be an Internment Camp for jailing civilians of Allied countries living in Northern China. My grandfather, Pastor Lede Huang, was in charge of “Weihsien Courtyard of the Happy Way” at that time. With risking of losing life and fighting under huge difficulties, my grandfather and my father, Anwei Huang, helped a lot of people from different countries to be able to survive at that time. However, after the war in 1953, my grandfather was exiled to the remote and backward western part of China, all because of he was a Pastor and helped many American refugee. He eventually passed away in poor conditions. And my father, Anwei Huang, a great Pastor also, was treated unfairly whole life due to the same reason, left us forever in 1998.
>>>
>>> As the only one Christian currently in my family, I came to visit my family relatives here at America, and then decided to stay here. I am hoping to collect and organize the stories about my grandfather and father, freely express my thought, telling people the miserable experience of my grandfather and father, as Chinese Christian, being suffering from unfair treatment, restoring the historical truth, spreading the power of Christianity, the noble faith.
>>>
>>> If, you are the survivor who were held in Weihsien Internment Camp, or you are the descendant of one of them, you will never forget that part of sad history, also you probably still remember that China’s “Schindler”, Lede Huang. Here, can I urge you to recall that part of history at a proper time when you are willing and willing to witness a China Christian clergy‘s ordinary and great deeds, let the noble Christian faith benefiting the world? I would greatly appreciate it if you can provide even a little bit of memory about Weihsien Internment Camp, or a little bit of impression you have about my grandfather, Pastor Dele Huang.
>>>
>>> I would be grateful for your help, and I look forward to your reply.
>>>
>>> Sincerly,
>>>
>>> Yuelin Huang (Granddaughter of Dele Huang)
>>>
>>> June, 2015
>>>
>>> My Contact: huangyuelin5@gmail.com
briankerry59@yahoo.com [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Fri, 9 Oct 2015 at 23:49
Re: [weihsien_camp] Fw: new photos
Good evening, Leopold,
I have posted a new album Edgewater Mansion 2015, containing the photographs taken on our visit 15 August 2015. This includes many interior shots which will be of interest to those who stayed in this beautiful hotel in September 1945 after our release from Weihsien.
Kind regards,
Brian
http://weihsien-paintings.org/70YearsAfter/Photos/BrianKerry/Qingdao/TsingTao(web).pdf
http://weihsien-paintings.org/70YearsAfter/Photos/BrianKerry/Yantai/Yantai(web).pdf
http://weihsien-paintings.org/70YearsAfter/Photos/BrianKerry/Weihsien/BrianKerry(web).pdf
http://weihsien-paintings.org/70YearsAfter/Photos/BrianKerry/p_panorama-01.html
'tapol_(Skynet)' tapol@skynet.be [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Fri, 2 Oct 2015 at 17:31
Re: [weihsien_camp] Fw: new photos
Dear Brian,
Yes ! about the USS Geneva, ... it is still vivid in my memory that in 1961, when we were on our way to Beaumont (Texas) we sailed past a stock of hundreds ... or should I say “thousands” of liberty and victory ships one next to another, idle and waiting for goodness knows what next !!!
For us, it was a sad sight because we were ourselves on board a Belgian “victory” ship, the s/s Louis Sheid and many of her sister ships were lying out there not far away from us .... and ... slowly dying! A great amount of war ships too were in that “stock”!
Like the USS Geneva, some ships seem to be unsinkable. The m/s Felix Roussel a French passenger ship made a heroic resistance against the enemy and survived the war. She had a sister ship named the “Aramis” or if you prefer: the s/s Teia Maru so often mentioned in Donald Menzi’s articles about the repatriation voyage in 1943! The whole story of the Felix Roussel is also readable on Wikipedia. Our family came back home from China on board that ship (m/v Felix Roussel) ... from Hong Kong to Marseilles in 1952.
The USS Geneva and the Felix Roussel were finaly both sent to scrap !! Yes ! ... as I said ... unsinkable !
Best regards,
Leopold
'Brian Kerry' brian.a.kerry@sky.com [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Fri, 2 Oct 2015 at 16:08
RE: [weihsien_camp] Fw: new photos
Hello Leopold,
Thank you so much for doing an excellent job with our photos. I am so pleased with the result!
Thanks, too, for including some additional relevant things. I had seen stuff about the USS Geneva before. I am not sure if you read all its history – it was later used during two American neuclear tests at Bikini Atoll in the Pacific. The ship did not sink and was later declared free of radiation! See the last two sections of the Wiki article.
Best regards,
Brian
Mary Previte mtprevite@aol.com [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Fri, 2 Oct 2015 at 13:57
Re: [weihsien_camp] Fw: new photos
What beautiful pictures!
Mary Previte
'tapol_(Skynet)' tapol@skynet.be [weihsien_camp]
[weihsien_camp] Fw: new photos
Sorry, I forgot to include the URL ... (I guess you all found it easily on the Weihsien-Paintings’ website) !!! http://www.weihsien-paintings.org/70YearsAfter/Photos/BrianKerry/Qingdao/TsingTao(web).pdf
'tapol_(Skynet)' tapol@skynet.be [weihsien_camp]
To:weihsien_camp@yahoogroups.com
Fri, 2 Oct 2015 at 11:38